Sarah Evans: It’s everyone’s responsibility to call out prejudice - not just the discriminated

To mark International Women’s Day 2022, we had the pleasure of speaking with Sarah Evans, Employment Partner at Constantine Law.

Sarah spoke to us about her career trajectory from a Commercial Litigation lawyer to an Employment Partner, the legislative and cultural changes that have changed the way we approach gender, race & disability in employment law, and tips for managing a stressful and busy workload.

How did you get into Employment Law?

I started out as a Commercial Litigation lawyer but I always had an interest in employment law and I gradually gravitated towards it. I really enjoy the people-centric side to it and the chance to fight for the underdog when the opportunity arises. Typically, I work on complex negotiations for senior employees involving shares, LTIPs, contentious work, and working in the tribunals, so a lot of discrimination cases and more complex matters.

I decided to move from commercial to employment law for a range of reasons – both personal and preference. I enjoyed litigation because it is tactical and not pure law. The real pull of employment law is working with people. I know this may be a slightly romanticised viewpoint, but it is rewarding when you can actually help somebody out of a crisis.

That’s not to say that it isn’t hard and fast-paced work, but it is varied. One of the best things I hear from clients is ‘I just feel better for having spoken with you’ which is lovely because it means you’re actually able to help.

In your time as an employment lawyer, how have legislative and cultural changes transformed the industry?

There have certainly been some notable changes in the 10-15 years since I started out. This is mainly based on the changes we have seen culturally. A major one in terms of everyday practice when I talk to clients, is the role that social media plays in cases. The obligation to keep records and what you define as a document is much broader than it ever was. For instance, screenshots of messages from WhatsApp, Facebook, and Twitter are being used a lot more frequently, when previously it would have been mostly letters and email correspondence.

Another big cultural change has been the #MeToo movement, I do believe women perhaps feel a bit more empowered to speak up as a result. This is a gradual and slow change, but it does demonstrate some progress.

We have also seen huge changes across multiple sectors in the past 18-months. Since Covid-19 hit, the landscape for the world of work has changed dramatically and it has shone a real light on gender inequalities.

For example, remote and flexible working can be seen as a potentially advantageous outcome of the pandemic, but it brings with it a whole stack of new and unparalleled challenges for employers and employees. In many ways, it’s one step forwards and two steps back as we are still miles behind where we should be with gender inequality and harassment.

“We can’t fully equalise initiatives like remote working until we get equality completely ingrained into every aspect of society. ”

There’s been a few studies about remote working being a disadvantage for women and people with disabilities. Do you think that working from home can potentially disadvantage certain groups?

As advantageous as working from home can be when done correctly, not everybody’s experience of flexible or home working is the same or a positive one. This is a sweeping generalisation in the modern world, but a lot of women had to deal with the simultaneous pressures of balancing household chores, homeschooling and childcare with a full work schedule. Therefore when it came to working from home, women were sometimes taking on more stress and with the same expectations to stay on top of work.

The same can be said for individuals with mental and physical disabilities. A lot of my clients faced challenges with getting the right equipment home from the office or the struggle of being on their own amongst other feelings of alienation and it just proved too much to cope with.

This isn’t what ‘flexible working’ is supposed to look like and we have a long way to go. There has been a big shift recently in terms of disability discrimination, there is now a much better understanding of mental as well as physical disabilities, but this still needs a lot of attention. Realistically, we can’t fully equalise initiatives like remote working until we get equality completely ingrained into every aspect of society.

In terms of legislation, what do you think are the biggest challenges right now for gender equality in the UK workplace?

I think for starters we need much better data and clarity on pay. Employers should all have reporting obligations, but a lot of smaller companies don’t have to report due to their size. We also know that It Is possible, and not uncommon for reporting companies to manipulate the figures. When you have got structures like LLPs (limited liability partnerships) or partnerships, they don't report at all in terms of partners, but it is those senior positions where the pay disparity is probably most stark.

There is also disparity with part-time roles, which are mostly filled by women, but this is not always reflected in the figures. Until employers and women recognise that they have equal worth and can do just as well professionally, we will have to use pay reporting as a tool to measure the gap.

More reporting is yet to be done and needs to be done in terms of pay for disabled people because there is a huge pay gap compared to those without a disability. That will hopefully be the next focus alongside race pay gap reporting.

Is there anything else apart from the pay gap that’s a big challenge for equality in employment that you deal with as a lawyer?

Unfortunately, attitudes at work can be a huge stumbling block to equality. After 17 years I still find myself having the same conversations and that can be extremely frustrating in 2022.

I remember a conversation I had with a boss when I was newly qualified and a single parent. I used to have to do the school run for my son, who was eight at the time and I would get into work at 9 am to comments like “when is this going to end?” The automatic response I had to this question was “for as long as I have a son” which isn’t exactly temporary.

Inequality for women at work is a more complex challenge because gender bias is a societal issue. For instance, it’s been a full year since Sarah Everard was murdered and the majority of women still don’t feel like enough is being done to keep them safe or to help them feel safe. During the lockdown, the increase in domestic violence against women was phenomenal and these issues can easily bleed into a work environment. Whatever those outside attitudes may be, we unconsciously take them with us.

In terms of employment law, it is key to force the change we want to see and recognise that proper equality starts with equal opportunities and not being treated differently if you don’t fit into a certain category.

It’s not up to the discriminated party to call out prejudice– it’s everyone’s responsibility and the focus probably needs to shift away from the injured party and onto the people who are doing the harm and perpetuating those attitudes or just not educating themselves.

“It’s taken me a lifetime to learn that nothing bad will come from saying ‘no, I can’t get this done today or tonight, it will have to be tomorrow.’ ”

There has been a lot of discussions recently about the hours lawyers work and the pressure they are under with the expectation to work very long hours often at the expense of their mental health. Do you have any tried and tested ways to find balance in your work?

It definitely takes a great deal of practice to get the balance right. In the legal profession, it can be particularly challenging. It’s awful, but there used to be an ethos of ‘the first one to have a heart attack wins’. It’s a disturbing cultural flaw, but it is starting to change.

A big part of it is being honest with how much you can take on and being realistic by managing expectations. It happens all the time in law: you can have the perfect week planned out and then suddenly, an injunction lands and you’re forced to drop everything for the next two days.

I think poor work-life balance can sometimes impact those at a junior level more so because there is a huge learning curve and you are in a very competitive environment. As a junior lawyer, it is common practice to never want to say no, but you can manage your time with the person who is delegating work to you and ask them for help with prioritisation.

The most important thing is recognising when to stop and when it would be counterproductive to continue. Stress can be hugely debilitating. We’ve all done it in the past, you might spend 4 hours working on something when you’re tired in the evening instead of realising that it’s time to stop and pick it up in the morning after a rest, when it will probably take you half the time.

At the risk of making a generalisation, not knowing when to say no can be more of a female trait because we’re socialised to put others’ needs before ours but at some point, we need to flip the script and learn to value our own time. I learned to practice saying no the hard way through being quite ill from stress.

It’s taken me a lifetime to learn that nothing bad will come from saying ‘no, I can’t get this done today or tonight, it will have to be tomorrow.’ Our clients phone us because they’re in trouble or worried something bad might happen, so it can be a bit of a crisis service and there can be an underlying sense of urgency. When this happens you obviously have to accommodate, but finding the right balance is key.

Sarah Evans is a specialist employment lawyer and a Partner at Constantine Law. Since qualifying in 2004, she has worked for some of the UK’s most prominent law firms. Sarah has a strong reputation in guiding clients through complex sex and disability discrimination and whistleblowing claims/defences.

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